Erik Lie is the Amelia Tippie Chair in Finance and Professor at the Tippie College of Business at the University of Iowa. His new book, Catching Cheats: Everyday Forensics to Unmask Business Fraud, offers a compelling look at how forensic economics and data-driven analysis can help identify wrongdoing that remains hidden in plain sight. We talk about a broad range of governance and fraud-related issues, beginning with the challenges of private-market data, the evolving responsibilities of directors in fraud detection, and real-world lessons from the Bernie Madoff case and other historic white-collar scandals.
(0:00) Intro
(1:30) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel
(2:16) Start of interview
(3:01) Erik's origin story
(6:10) His role at the Tippie College of Business at the University of Iowa.
(7:49) Exploring his book Catching Cheats
(9:39) About the field of forensic economics
(11:00) The Challenge of Private Market Data and Fraud *Reference to our Startup Litigation Digest
(16:24) Board Responsibilities in Fraud Detection
(19:03) Challenges for private company boards
(21:22) Insights and red flags from the Madoff Case
(26:30) Insider Trading and Its Challenges
(31:29) The Role of Whistleblowers in Fraud. Reference to E142 with Tyler Shultz and E130 with Mary Inman (whistleblower attorney)
(35:44) Cultural Perspectives on White-Collar Crime
(39:59) The Intersection of Vision and Fraud
(41:27) Fraud problems in academia
(44:00) The Impact of AI on Fraud Dynamics *suggested read: The Trillion Dollar Governance Reckonings
(49:46) The role of directors in the stock backdating scandals "they were happy beneficiaries"
(51:03) Books that have greatly influenced his life:
(53:45) His mentors *discussion about the Norges Bank Investment Mgmt Fund ($2T AUM) and its ethical issues.
(56:23) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives his life by.
(57:10) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves.
(58:08) The living person he most admires: Bill Gates.
Erik Lie is the Amelia Tippie Chair in Finance and Professor at the Tippie College of Business at the University of Iowa. His new book, Catching Cheats: Everyday Forensics to Unmask Business Fraud, offers a compelling look at how forensic economics and data-driven analysis can help identify wrongdoing that remains hidden in plain sight.